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Eleven Tails

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Eleven Tails

Post by naito on Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:02 pm

To start with, I summoned the him so that I would fight him on a Sunday to get the benefit of the R00t science machine. I summoned it on a Thursday and got ready for the 11 days of waiting.
Day 1: Days Alive = 10 use +1 Life against Phases Favor
Day 2: Days Alive = 11 use favor -2 days alive, Days Alive = 9
Day 3: Days Alive = 10 use favor -2 days alive, Days Alive = 8
Day 4: Days Alive = 9 use favor -2 days alive, Days Alive = 7
Day 5: Days Alive = 8 use favor -2 days alive, Days Alive = 6
Day 6: Days Alive = 7 use favor -2 days alive, Days Alive = 5
Day 7: Days Alive = 6 use favor -2 days alive, Days Alive = 4
Day 8: Days Alive = 5 use favor -2 days alive, Days Alive = 3
Day 9: Days Alive = 4 use favor -2 days alive, Days Alive = 2
Day 10: Days Alive = 3 use favor -2 days alive, Days Alive = 1, Hack this day.
Day 11: Days Alive = 2 use favor -2 days alive, Days Alive = 0, Fight this day

I summoned it when I only had 6 favors. I did this because I was sure that with Limitless Focus level 3 I could get the needed favor before I need them. One thing that I did not do is to make it so your 7-day bonus coincides with the day you plan to fight him. To do this, 8 days before you fight the fox do not use your bonus stamina, this will reset you consecutive days, the next day you start using the bonus stamina again. I had my spars at 499, but any spar bonus is good. Vacation should be at its max. I had 4 doses of sugary candy, to completely use my stamina. When I hacked, I made sure to hack one more than necessary to anticipate a negative hack. The day that I hacked I also bought my first buy in on the fox. This saves you a good amount of stamina the next day. Before fighting him the next day, I did a bingo with Palmface for the extra appetite. I fought him with a team of Smokey the Bear 2, Sporty 2 and I had Twilight Guardian summoned. I fought him at the lowest DC. I never did lose a life, but if I had then I would have switched my team to Stalkergirl 3 and Tsukasa 2. That is the story.

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Re: Eleven Tails

Post by Ainn on Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:13 pm

It's a safe and good tactic, and it's good help for others who are doing R00t, especially for us who are closing in on the Eleven Tail.

When it comes to destruction of lives, the Time Reversal Cube is invaluable, it saved me from 4 destroyed lives almost in a row on one Phase.
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Re: Eleven Tails

Post by Dudest on Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:09 am

You mentioned you fought him at minimum push. How many buy-ins did it take?
I've heard you can make your first buy-in the day before (Day 10 on your list) and they last past day-roll, saving you a lot of stamina. Do you know if that is true?

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Re: Eleven Tails

Post by naito on Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:44 am

Yes, I did buy the first buyin on day 10. The fights do last past dayroll and the cost of the next buyin the next day is the only 200 since it is your first buyin that day. I bought in 6 times, it would take more without certain major kaiju drops or science 4 damage. Using minimum push decreased my chance of losing by 10%, from 17 to 7. If I had not been able to kill it the first day I would hack again the next day and then the next day use a favor to lower the current 2 days alive to 0 and then kill it.

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Re: Eleven Tails

Post by billdoors on Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:48 am

Sounds daunting - appropriate enough, I guess. I'm kind of glad I won't have to deal with this for a long time.
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Re: Eleven Tails

Post by Ainn on Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:58 am

If one want to do it the risky way and cut the stamina price, you can use "A Song of Storm and Fire" overture (500000 Ryo), but then you have to fight at max push
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Re: Eleven Tails

Post by Ainn on Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:42 am

My strategy for defeating the Eleven-Tailed fox was to first reduce "Days alive" to 0 as naito described and then fight it at Max Push under the effect of A Song of Storm and Fire, Bullet Time and Spear of Wotan (Total: 3% death chance, 180 Stamina used) and like naito i didn't lose a single life (got one close call though), but unlike naito I had Wired Reflexes, Bullet Time and R00t Fu which are new bonuses

List of all bonuses:

  • Season 8! 8 Drain, 8 Drain Range
  • A Song of Storm and Fire! While Fighting a Phase at Max Push, you do not use up Attacks
  • R00t! +2 Drain Strength!
  • Epitaph! +2 Drain Strength!
  • Lycoris! +5 Drain!
  • Boomstick! +2 Drain!
  • Spear of Wotan! -1% DC at Max Push!
  • Bullet Time! -1% DC at Max Push!
  • Drain & Tonic! +8 Drain!
  • Smokey the Bear Lvl. 2! +50% Damage!
  • Sporty Lvl. 2! +5 Edge!
  • Aromatic Grass! +5 Edge!
  • Wired Reflexes! +10 Edge!
  • Tri-Edge! +50% Damage!
  • Detective Duo! +200% Damage!
  • R00t Fu Bonus! +2 Successes!
  • Core Bonus! +10 Edge!
  • Core Bonus! +5 Drain!
  • Legacy! Extra Life!
  • Drain Amplifier! +2 Drain!
  • Multi-Threaded! +100% Damage!
  • Skull Throne! +1 Drain Strength!
  • Positive Drain: +7 Drain Strength!
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Re: Eleven Tails

Post by Dudest on Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:19 pm

Do you remember how many attacks it took? I'm curious whether the number of buy-ins needed would have been few enough that you could have skipped the Overture- I believe he only has 11K health, right?

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Re: Eleven Tails

Post by Ainn on Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:25 pm

I don't remember how many attacks i used but I did around 360-440 damage per attack, and yes he only have 11000 HP
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Re: Eleven Tails

Post by Lear on Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:27 am

EDUT: Numbers at the bottom. Most of this stuff is no longer important. Edut 3 and below is.

Don't know if you were still wondering, but what I've found:

a.) with any real level of preparation, overture is unnecessary. You shouldn't have much problem taking down the 11tails in one day. I'd estimate 4 buy ins to kill it, so one the day before, plus 200 + 300 + 400 = 900 stamina.

b.) fighting at min push is probably going to take you a few more days. I figure it's going to be about 8 buy ins for that. So (assuming one the day before) 200 + 300 + 400 + 500 + 600 + 700 + 800 = 3500 stamina. Probably not doable unless you've got several hundred students like Shin Goji.

That means you'll have to fight it over two days, using a day in between to hack and use another favor (actually the favor goes on the day you fight it, but it's still a favor spent.)

c.) Even with the new bit shop, it's still better to fight at min push, although not by much. A rather crude estimate* puts your win chances at 88.2% at max push and 95.3% at min push, a difference of 7.1%. Worth 2 days + an extra favor? Up to you to decide. (Game theory says... maybe. Some variables work out better, others worth. You decide.)

*Assumptions made:
40 hits for max push. 80 for min. <= Probably overestimated on both instances.
3% death chance at max, 1% at min. <= If they're not, you're doing it wrong.
Binomial distribution. <= Duh.

*part 2*Things not accounted for:
Having to switch party when you lose your first 2 lives. (Technically you don't, but next shot kills you then.)
Having to drain. Not kill.
Being able to min push ten times for free IFF you use Fire&Flames.

^ All in all, probably means max push is better than indicated above, but still not as good as min push. Seriously, both methods work, but if you want to avoid that 1 in 20 crit fail, then take the extra time to min push.

Edut: I'm bored. Updating with real math. As opposed to lazy math with estimated values.

Edut2: Okay, after a bunch of calculations, which a.) aren't fully emcompasing and b.) which I'm not going to post because of (a), I'm not entirely sure Min push is always better right now.

The reason is because, while your chance of death is very low, an early death basically ruins your fight. Your chances become rather low, and it will still take forever to win, even if you do.

EXAMPLE: Let's say, you get killed on your 11th attack. (Approximately an 11% chance. Okay, it's slightly closer to 10, but meh.) In that time, you've done just over 1700 damage, assuming 34 (my) drain. But now, to deal the last last 9300 damage, it will take you 150(!) more attacks. And your chances of success at this point are only 56%.

On the other hand, if you fought at max push. Dying on your 4th attack (again, approx. 11% chance) means you've delt only 1250 damage, BUT means you'll only need 43 more attacks and still have a 63% chance of winning. In fact, if you fight at max push, you can be destroyed on your very first push and still have a better than even chance of winning in the end.

Of course, that means that there's a point at which you would want to switch strategies depending on how well your phase battle is going. I'm in the process of writing some java code to tell me what those values are (via phase fight simulation, rather than mathematics) and whether max or min push is ideal.

---------------------------

Edut 3: Okay, so I'm running 500k 25k (500k makes my Pentium4 cry) trials of both max and min push to see how they stack up right now. In the meantime: here's exactly what I'm testing.

34 drain - I estimate this from a Season 11 ninja (me) with either BC or Tumblers but not both
Fully hacked strength - duh
21 range - Season 11 ninja
Goal is to kill, not hack - Minor flaw, in my opinion. Shouldn't make a significant difference.
Purchased all bit bonuses EXCEPT Wired Reflexes. I may add it later, though.
Science! is NOT running successfully. Will test that in a bit, though.
Player switches to Offline Romance team after dying once.

Anyway, here are the numbers.

Max_Push: 86.371% - Average of 37.31 attacks
Min_Push: 87.196% - Average of 88.40 attacks


I'm actually really surprised . Min_push still wins by a nose, but it's close, and not really close enough to justify the cost of min pushing it.

Testing Science! now.

These numbers are accounting for a +100% damage boost with Science!:
Max_Push: 89.88% - Average of 32.77 attacks
Min_Push: 94.836% - Average of 63.09 attacks


Yeah, this makes the difference. If Science! activates, you get a small, but nontrivial boost to max pushing, but a very large (almost 8%) boost to min push.

Edut 4: Added number of attacks required.

Edut 5: Now can account for Wired Reflexes. Results below.

Wired Reflexes; no Science!:
Max_Push: 88.900% - 33.46 attacks
Min_Push: 90.248% - 78.37 attacks


Wired Reflects, w/Science!:
Max_Push: 91.944% - 29.36 attacks
Min_Push: 96.236% - 56.02 attacks


Make of it what you will.

Edut 6: So what happens if you don't switch to Offline Romance, and just take the chances that the next hit will kill you? (Actually, this answer was a lot less interesting than I hoped. You die. Pretty horribly.)

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Re: Eleven Tails

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